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Stronger than SSJG?
Topic Started: May 31 2015, 06:48 PM (2,179 Views)
+ Majin Vegeta
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TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:02 PM
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But the question remains, where is the basis for such a huge boost? SSJG has a basis but there's literally no reason to have SSJ4 so high, it's merely a potential unlock, even weaker than Elder Kai's. You're basically saying that Goku's potential >>>> Gohan's and that goes against what we've seen so far and you are also forgetting that Goku has received a potential unlock before and he didn't even become 3x stronger. Just because it's red like SSJG doesn't make it just as powerful, SSJG is a godly boost, SSJ4 is just a mere potential unlock, heck not even Gohan with Elder Kai's got this insane boost, not even close.

And on another note, Whis had no idea about SSJG and Beerus heard it in his dream, he also had no idea.


You're making a staggering amount of assumptions. First, there isn't an actual consensus on wether Super Saiyan Four is a potential unlock or an actual power up. If anything it's relative to Blutz Waves. The more someone takes in, the stronger it seems to make a Golden Oozaru and by extension a Super Saiyan Four. So regardless of potential levels, power is power. Super Saiyan God Mode is a godly boost, but its amazing how very little good it actually did. And how do you gauge the potential unlock? There are no numbers. At all. Any formal number is arbitrary and theoretical. It's seriously just a theorem (And I hesitate to use that word since it can't honestly be proven on paper.) Now if there was a way to find out how the blutz waves proportionately multiply a Saiyan's power, then maybe it could be quantified. But honestly as it stands, boosts from either form are just "What the plot demands."
Hm, we do know SSJ4 is a potential unlock that's a fact, both GT itself through statements stated it (Elder Kai himself) and it was also shown in the GT perfect files, and no Blutz waves help the tail to grow up and enter Golden Oozaru mode which results in SSJ4 after controlling it, there's no evidence that Blutz waves make a SSJ4 stronger, only through absorbing others powers is proven. And yeah potential unlock cannot be judged completely but you're going against other materials that are already shown, how can Goku's potential been 3x get to the 8.000x? How can his potential surpass Gohan's by miles if it was clear that Gohan had more, far far more? And also there's no reason to assume such a boost except for favorism.

Although I agree that boosts are based on plot the SSJG has a reason to be so high, SSJ4 does not.
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TheACE
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Not really, they end up in the same field. For Super Saiyan God Mode to have such an enormous boost you'd need to know the exact percentage that Super Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond Goku was of Beerus' true power. And you really can't gauge it off the curb stomp. Vegeta's merc'd baddies with a 25% percent edge and Krillin's kept up with a 70%+ disadvantage.

Besides, Goku should have some amazing potential. He's got the tenacity and the willpower to push his limits, why wouldn't he push his limits of his potential? If you really wanna get technical, he was a low-class Saiyan Warrior by birth who's potential was determined to be nearly zero. And by GT he's saved the universe more times than most people have been to the DMV. So... just putting that out there.
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TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:27 PM
Not really, they end up in the same field. For Super Saiyan God Mode to have such an enormous boost you'd need to know the exact percentage that Super Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond Goku was of Beerus' true power.
Doesn't have to be exact. Based on Goku's comment, we know Beerus > SSJ3 Vegetto > SSJ2 Vegetto > SSJ Vegetto > Base Vegetto > SSJ3 Goku

SSJG has to be greater than the combined boost of Potara and SSJ3. That's a monstrous increase.

All SSJ4 has to do is pass Bebi Vegeta, SBV1, and SBV2. There's nothing to suggest it's boost is anywhere near as large as SSJG's.
Edited by Slifer, Jun 28 2015, 07:35 PM.
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TheACE
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Yeah but Super Saiyan God Mode doesn't seem to be that effective or really that much more powerful.
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TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:35 PM
Yeah but Super Saiyan God Mode doesn't seem to be that effective or really that much more powerful.
He pushed Beerus to use nearly 70% of his power. How is that not powerful?
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TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:27 PM
Not really, they end up in the same field. For Super Saiyan God Mode to have such an enormous boost you'd need to know the exact percentage that Super Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond Goku was of Beerus' true power. And you really can't gauge it off the curb stomp. Vegeta's merc'd baddies with a 25% percent edge and Krillin's kept up with a 70%+ disadvantage.

Besides, Goku should have some amazing potential. He's got the tenacity and the willpower to push his limits, why wouldn't he push his limits of his potential? If you really wanna get technical, he was a low-class Saiyan Warrior by birth who's potential was determined to be nearly zero. And by GT he's saved the universe more times than most people have been to the DMV. So... just putting that out there.
SSJG >> SSJ3 + Potata is all we need, at the very least. Not to mention that going by the manga it's even larger. It doesn't matter if he should, Vegeta should have amazing potential as well, been a Saiyan Prince and getting praised by Frieza and yet when he got his potential unlocked he only got like 1.5x stronger at best, pitiful. And based on Goku's previous potential unlocks which were like 3x it makes no sense for it to be 8.000x later on, and no reason anyway.

And in the end of th day Gohan's potential > Goku's potential is fact and yet Gohan never had such a monstrous boost.

Well that would be all :) .
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Mr. Hashbrowns
Jun 28 2015, 07:36 PM
TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:35 PM
Yeah but Super Saiyan God Mode doesn't seem to be that effective or really that much more powerful.
He pushed Beerus to use nearly 70% of his power. How is that not powerful?


He did that as a Super Saiyan.

SSJ4 Goku
Jun 28 2015, 07:46 PM
TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:27 PM
Not really, they end up in the same field. For Super Saiyan God Mode to have such an enormous boost you'd need to know the exact percentage that Super Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond Goku was of Beerus' true power. And you really can't gauge it off the curb stomp. Vegeta's merc'd baddies with a 25% percent edge and Krillin's kept up with a 70%+ disadvantage.

Besides, Goku should have some amazing potential. He's got the tenacity and the willpower to push his limits, why wouldn't he push his limits of his potential? If you really wanna get technical, he was a low-class Saiyan Warrior by birth who's potential was determined to be nearly zero. And by GT he's saved the universe more times than most people have been to the DMV. So... just putting that out there.
SSJG >> SSJ3 + Potata is all we need, at the very least. Not to mention that going by the manga it's even larger. It doesn't matter if he should, Vegeta should have amazing potential as well, been a Saiyan Prince and getting praised by Frieza and yet when he got his potential unlocked he only got like 1.5x stronger at best, pitiful. And based on Goku's previous potential unlocks which were like 3x it makes no sense for it to be 8.000x later on, and no reason anyway.

And in the end of th day Gohan's potential > Goku's potential is fact and yet Gohan never had such a monstrous boost.

Well that would be all :) .


Actually I kinda feel like Gohan's Super Saiyan Four Form would probably be monstrously strong.
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TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 08:54 PM
Mr. Hashbrowns
Jun 28 2015, 07:36 PM
TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:35 PM
Yeah but Super Saiyan God Mode doesn't seem to be that effective or really that much more powerful.
He pushed Beerus to use nearly 70% of his power. How is that not powerful?


He did that as a Super Saiyan.

SSJ4 Goku
Jun 28 2015, 07:46 PM
TheACE
Jun 28 2015, 07:27 PM
Not really, they end up in the same field. For Super Saiyan God Mode to have such an enormous boost you'd need to know the exact percentage that Super Saiyan Ascended Even Further Beyond Goku was of Beerus' true power. And you really can't gauge it off the curb stomp. Vegeta's merc'd baddies with a 25% percent edge and Krillin's kept up with a 70%+ disadvantage.

Besides, Goku should have some amazing potential. He's got the tenacity and the willpower to push his limits, why wouldn't he push his limits of his potential? If you really wanna get technical, he was a low-class Saiyan Warrior by birth who's potential was determined to be nearly zero. And by GT he's saved the universe more times than most people have been to the DMV. So... just putting that out there.
SSJG >> SSJ3 + Potata is all we need, at the very least. Not to mention that going by the manga it's even larger. It doesn't matter if he should, Vegeta should have amazing potential as well, been a Saiyan Prince and getting praised by Frieza and yet when he got his potential unlocked he only got like 1.5x stronger at best, pitiful. And based on Goku's previous potential unlocks which were like 3x it makes no sense for it to be 8.000x later on, and no reason anyway.

And in the end of th day Gohan's potential > Goku's potential is fact and yet Gohan never had such a monstrous boost.

Well that would be all :) .


Actually I kinda feel like Gohan's Super Saiyan Four Form would probably be monstrously strong.
Post-God, yes. His power was outright stated to be substantially higher than it was pre-God.

Unless you think his post-God SSJ made him stronger than SSJG for some reason.
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TheACE
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Well given how much more a*** he kicked, I'm inclined to believe it. For all the talk about it, the feats don't stack up.
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To be fair, Super Saiyan God Goku was able to match Birusu. The only reason he did even better as a Super Saiyan was because he decided to fight more seriously.

He has a few feats though, he survived blows from Birusu who hammar fists punch on Goku picked up the ocean and evaporated the water I believe, that's insane. As for speed Goku as a Super Saiyan God has speed rivaling Birusu's, and he managed to outpace Instant Transmission from post God Goku. And the form allowed him to stop Birusu's ki blast whereas he couldn't stop it prior.

Super Saiyan 4 strong as hell too though, but in terms of which is stronger Super Saiyan God takes it. As Hash said, if Goku had Super Saiyan God's boost in GT, he crush even Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta tbh.
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TheACE
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Didn't Frieza destroy an ocean in season 3?
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TheACE
Jul 3 2015, 12:34 AM
Didn't Frieza destroy an ocean in season 3?
In season 3 he cut the planet in two and with telekinesis, lifted the sea to get to Vegeta who was submerged.
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